Organic Farming’s Future

My e-mail In-box the other day contained a message from an outfit called The Organic Center that was touting a campaign called Mission Organic 2010. The campaign’s goal is to increase the current market for organicfood from 3% to 10% by the end of 2010. The little blurb concluded: “When consumers demand more organic foods, farmers and food companies will supply this growing demand. The result is healthier people and a healthier planet.”

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I didn’t give it much thought after reading it, except for thinking that seemed like a wildly ambitious goal. I mean, 2010 is already here. But then another message popped into my In-box, and it really got me thinking about that organic campaign. A friend shared a story from the New York Times, in which the Times interviewed the chief executive of Syngenta Crop Protection, Inc., Michael Mack.

Apparently the interviewer had said something about organic food being better for the planet — the message of Mission Organic 2010 — and Mack took issue. “Organic food is not only not better for the planet,” he said, “it is categorically worse.”

The problem with organic farming, said Mack, is that it takes up to 30% more land, on average, than conventional farming, to get the same yield. If the world wants to feed its fast-growing population on existing cropland, and Mack emphasized that he doesn’t want to see forests chopped down, then productivity becomes a key factor. “If the whole planet were to switch to organic farming tomorrow,” he said, “it would be an ecological disaster.”

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But Mack didn’t stop there. In an eloquent barb, he said that in terms of yields, organic farming is the “productive equivalent of driving an SUV.” The problem is that most people hold the “mistaken belief that natural is always better,” he said. Pesticides that help crops grow more efficiently “have been proven safe and effective and absolutely not harmful to the environment or to humans,” and have been certified as such by FDA and EPA.

Then Mack said something that I had never heard before that really clicked. If you pursue the “natural is always better” argument to the end, you don’t believe pesticides are safe, implying that you don’t trust the government’s findings. “Once you go down that path,” he said, “I don’t know where the guard rails are.”

I don’t know about you, but I think Mack makes a good case. You can’t have your organic cake — and preserve the world’s forests — and eat it too. What do you think? Leave a comment in the box below.

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Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

Organic farming is rapidly becoming everything it wasn’t supposed to be. Some big shippers have all gotten their fingers into it now and the competition has become especially fierce because there are several other big shippers out there who do not want to get into the organics at the risk of losing their well-established conventional product label integrity. This creates backroom coercion to the chain retailers to keep the prices the same or they will sell the better quality to the chain’s competition. As a result, go to your major grocery stores that offer organic veggies (most of them do now) and then compare the prices vs. the conventionally produced ones. FOR MOST PRODUCTS NOW, THE PRICES ARE EXACTLY THE SAME! With fertilizer costs double, and weeding costs averaging 500% higher, and as David mentions 20% lower yields (from my experience) than conventional, how is the organic farmer going to make it with the same prices as conventional? It’s not going to happen. Also the organic farming requires 2 or 3 more extra cultivation passes with the tractor; and more labor, meaning more fuel used and quicker depletion of tractor, tires, equipment, etc. These extra costs for the same sales price is a recipe for doom.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

Kansas State economist Barry Flinchbaugh states that “A third of the world goes to bed hungry or malnourished and we are going to add another billion by 2030.” We will not be able to feed these people properly using organic farming methods. I resent the organic community insinuating that food grown by “conventional” farmers is inferior to food grown by organic farmers. It has been proven there is no difference in food grown by either “conventional” or organic farmers.

This note is not for publication.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

I have always been one to embrace the best of many different styles of growing. I incorporate the use of IPM for my fruit and vegetables with a healthy dose of some excellent soil buiding lessons learned from organic growers. Coming off the worst year for rain in the North East, I’m reminded every day of how glad I was to tell my NRCS office that going organic was not for me (they were trying to get me to commit to a transitional orgainc program). Had I done that, it would have spelled the end of growing for me. I was able to get tomatoes to the stand and to market when organic growers were feeling the wrath of late blight. Growing strictly organic will never be for me after this past year. My advice: take the best growing methods and incorporate them to your style. They’re just another tool in the tool box.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

Come on, these numbers are wrong. I will put my certified organic yields of fresh market produce up against any conventional equivalents, not to mention gross and net income per acre. You’re giving blind faith to the numbers given by Syngenta Crop Protection…Hmmm, where do they have an interest? That conventional farming is the only one that can feed the world is a tired old argument of Syngenta, Monsanto, et al. According to the USDA, we use 70% of the grain grown in this country to feed livestock, which produces about 10% of the protein as food that it was fed. If you’re really that worried about feeding the world you should just eat one less hamburger a month and not fearmonger against organic.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

A poorly managed organic farm can produce poor yields and be unprofitable. A poorly managed conventional farm can produce poor yields and be unprofitable. Sustainable and organic farms can be just as productive as conventional farms if well managed. Does it take more passes with machinery to grow an organic crop? Yes. Does it take more labor to grow an organic crop? Yes. In organic your replacing some of the chemical with this two operations. So instead of the money in your weed control budget going to the chemical companies your hiring more workers on your farm from the local community and keeping the money local. What is wrong with that?

Why do the representatives from these chemical companies get so bothered when someone in an interview makes mention of how the organic industry is seeing steady growth? Answer, organic growers don’t buy a lot of crop inputs from companies like Syngenta and Monsanto.

Mr. Mack’s comment about pesticides being certified safe by the FDA and EPA, any sane oncologist at any respected hospital in this country would say that pesticides are not completely safe. But then again look at the people in Washington working in the FDA and EPA many were former Monsanto, and Syngenta employees its no wonder all pesticides have been considered safe.

Yields can be pushed with conventional farming and fertilizer I will say that, but it is not sustainable long term. Conventional production is highly energy intensive. Growers tend to only think about fuel consumption in field operations, but in conventional production they is tremendous amounts of energy and natural resources used before crop inputs even get to the farm. Commercial fertilizers, insecticides, herbicides, all use petroleum to be made and have wastes left over when the whole process is done. So where then is the study that compares all this? Has any one done a study on this? You can produce and produce and produce but if your burning up all the natural resources making all these high energy use crop inputs the process becomes unsustainable long term.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

Organic Cherries?
This post started out as a response to a feedback question online. We spent all morning on our response and we decided to post it on the blog when it got too long. (www.kingorchards.com)

Mary has raised a great question. Why don’t we have organic fruit and why is it not easier to obtain? It sounds like such a simple question, but for today’s fruit growers it is anything but.

“We are passionate about growing great fruit” is not just our slogan here at King Orchards, and includes a commitment to doing so in the most sustainable and scientifically sound methods available. That said, there are a couple of assumptions that I would like to address.

First, pesticide free and organic are not the same thing. Organic growers have over 1500 pesticides approved for their crop protection usage. You can Google “approved organic pesticides”. You will find that both toxic and persistent chemicals can be used in organic production. Copper Sulfate, for example, builds up in soils (is persistent) and is highly toxic to fish, worms, and etc. Yet copper sulfate is widely used in organic production as a fungicide. The European Union is attempting to ban/limit the use of copper sulfate, but the organic community is resisting. Now to be fair, our ipm (integrated pest management) consultant tells me that the copper usage on organic farms, that he also consults for, is not a significant threat to the soils. (The same argument non-organic growers use for our pesticides)

Second, the assumption that organic is ecologically preferable is rarely accurate. The largest organic producers in the US are in arid regions where they have cultivated fragile desert ecosystems. They are able to access irrigation water from our river systems. The dry climates greatly limit the need for fungicides and insecticides. Here in our temperate Midwest, we have fungal diseases that bloom or sporulate with each rain period. Insect fruit pests, many of which spend most of their lives in the moist soils and decaying vegetation in orchard floors, adapt to the long term fruit production cycles and create increasing problems for fruit growers. The organic grower has few viable solutions and usually relies on frequent sprays of sulfur and kaolin clay which are desiccants that cover the growing fruit and leaves to insulate and protect from pest attacks. The end result is that without real effective tools to manage pests, Midwest organic growers need much higher prices to cover their huge losses. Along with that, they spray much more frequently than do their conventional farming neighbors. To fill a bushel with organic apples, a Midwest organic farmer uses more acreage, more fuel, and more inputs, including sprays.

Many consumers may not believe me because that’s not what they have been reading and hearing. I have challenged Michigan State Extension directors in the past to publish statewide statistics on organic farming production, economics, sustainability, etc. The cash strapped University is not going to put their cash cow in a bad light. Well intentioned donors have funded chairs on organic production at the university. The organic farming school is well attended and growing. Extension hosts small farm conferences throughout the state that are well attended and create revenue for the university. Since the internet, meetings for conventional growers see much smaller attendance. The points in question are; how many organic fruit producers do we have in Michigan now verses 5, 10, 15 or 20 years ago? How many have been in business all those years versus how many are new? What percentage of organic growers income is derived from organic farming? (How many organic farmers live off farming versus outside income). In how many cases does conventional farming subsidize the organic portion of a farm?

I don’t know the answers to all of those questions but I feel that the facts would be valuable to growers on all sides of the debate.

I want to point out that in America last year we fed Americans and still exported $23 billion more than we imported. A business of this magnitude will of course have negative side effects, including persistent chemicals in water, erosion, depleted soils, etc. We should make it our goal to remedy these real problems and find better alternatives to persistent chemicals, better systems for soil management etc. I believe that organic programs at our universities may find some of the solutions to these problems. However, I do not believe that we should throw out science in the very serious business of agriculture. The organic movement has actually harmed the advancement of new and better farming methods by diverting so much research and funding away from progressive technologies. I am not willing to forgo the use of effective safe pesticides just because they were synthesized, or derived from a petroleum product. (Almost all of our pesticides break down quickly and do not show up as residues in food.) When making pesticide choices we do always opt for the best ecological choice even when that might cost more.

Frequent references to organic food by food editors has created an illusion that there is a “local organic alternative” available. And, by implication, that conventionally grown local food is less safe and less desirable. The truth in the Midwest is that very few organic farmers have been able to make it work for any volume of production and that there are only very limited amounts of local organic fruit. I am not opposed to organic farmers and those who want to have organic food, (we have become friends with a large cherry grower with an organic block and we frequently share ideas) however, I do not agree that organic is better food, is safer, or is more sustainable. The opposite has proven to be true in Michigan.

For us the goal is to grow the safest, best quality fruit, and to make a living doing it, and at the same time leave the farm in the same or better shape than when me moved here. I expect to adopt new practices that help us to do a better job, but, Organic is not a goal of ours because it rules out too many wonderful advancements in growing fruit.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

I think your wrong. We can produce equal or higher yeilds per acre with less inputs and energy with organic production. Organic production requires cultural practices that promote biology and soil health which will sustain production for many years into the future. Organic farming is inherently more friendly towards wild life and the environment because of its focus on ecology. There are many threats to the natural world, organic farming is not one of them.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

The whole argument that Syngenta, Monsanto, et. al make that their “technologies” are feeding the world is an outright lie. Why don’t you, a journalist, know this? Part of your job is to check facts.

American conventional agriculture is not feeding the world. The majority of people in the world still feed themselves via subsistence agriculture, and most of them do it with minimal inputs. As another writer already stated, most commodity crops are used to produce livestock, not to feed starving people in third world countries.

While it may or may not be true that organic farmers use slightly more fuel per acre, that fact is likely cancelled out by the fact that synthetic pesticides used by conventional growers are mostly made out of petroleum. The bigger problem that all U.S. and western farmers face is that our industry has substituted petroleum fuel for human labor and this is an inherently unsustainable strategy.

One of the most damaging things that agribusiness has done is remove livestock from farms and place them in feedlots. By returning livestock to cropland, farmers (Organic or conventional) could double their income per acre while reducing fertilizer costs. Instead, our ag industry focuses more and more on specialization and outsourcing of the types of jobs that a farmer used to do himself, and taking more of the profit he used to keep.

I will never understand why most farmers seem to hate environmentalists and bureaucrats so much, yet they are suckers for P.R. from corporations who are the real source of their economic hardship.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

It seems clear that statistics can be manipulated just about any way you want them to turn out, so I will not try to wade through the percentages and projected population troubles. Instead, I’ll just say that this article seems terribly short-sighted and narrowly-defined. It sounds, not-surprisingly, like corporate slight of hand…”Organics are categorically worse” and “Natural is not always better.” Unbelievable. How about the rate of farmer suicide in India, trapped in a web of inputs delived by the wonderful, socially minded individuals of Monsanto and the like? How about the chemical run-off that makes once-pristine water unsafe to drink or eat fish from? How about the consistent loss of topsoil? I imagine answers to these questions, coming from Michael Mack, would be some round-about statistics to avoid the issue and once again create a feeling that what seems to be right is actually not right. Mack, by his comments here, represents the kind of official insanity that runs the power structures of the States. I think we would do well to listen carefully to what he says and then act in the exact opposite way.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

Mr. Eddy,
I guess if you are so confident about EPA’s determinations of “safety” then you are fine with EPA’s findings about endangerment from greenhouse gases and the prospect of regulations for GHGs. Talk about wanting your cake and eating it too…

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

Conventional ag is not feeding the world now, there is no indication that it can in the future. According to this story, Mack’s “good case” consists of these assertions: organic farming takes up to 30% more land, on average, than conventional farming, to get the same yield (a gross over-simplification); pesticides help crops grow more efficiently (and also pose potential environmental and health hazards); If you don’t believe pesticides are safe, then you don’t trust the government’s findings (it may be good to question EPA’s judgment). Organic agriculture by not relying on synthetic fertilizers and pesticides is inherently less energy-intensive and environmentally harmful than conventional ag. Mainstream ag needs to understand that now more than ever consumers want high quality, fresh food free of toxins. Meeting that demand will feed the world.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

One study is never enough to make a case, but this one seems relevant to this discussion. The results of a 6-year apple production system comparison study (conventional, integrated, organic) by Washington State University researchers were published in the science journal Nature in 2001 and are available in full detail at this link:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v410/n6831/full/410926a0.html

The summary states:

“All three systems gave similar apple yields. The organic and integrated systems had higher soil quality and potentially lower negative environmental impact than the conventional system. When compared with the conventional and integrated systems, the organic system produced sweeter and less tart apples, higher profitability and greater energy efficiency. Our data indicate that the organic system ranked first in environmental and economic sustainability, the integrated system second and the conventional system last.”

As earlier writers noted, regional differences are very significant in fruit production, so these results may not resonate for the humid midwest or other areas. It is good that such research is being advanced in more areas now so that producers have increasing information to use in making management decisions.

I would note as context for several of the threads in this discussion that many, many billions of dollars of public funding have advanced research into understanding and optimizing conventional systems for the last 60 years, while almost nothing has been invested in the same for organic systems, or integrated or sustainable systems for that matter. I contend that if we inverted the USDA research budget and gave $1.9 billion annually to organic systems research and $0.1 billion to conventional and let that go on for the next decade, organic yields would quickly outstrip conventional. The fact that organic producers generally come within 10% of conventional yields and match or surpass them on many farms (and nearly always in drought years) is a testament to the inherent strength of the approach and its potential to be a better long-term choice for agriculture.

That said, I have great respect for the producers who work hard to manage their systems in the way they feel works best for them, their land, their communities and their customers. We need less acrimony and hyperbole in discussions about what we know about systems and methods. Producers who embrace good ideas from across the board certainly embody that, and I applaud them for their open minds and good management. I don’t want to invert the unbalanced USDA budget, even though personally I have no interest in continuing down most convention research paths. Instead, we should strive to balance our investments, which for now should mean continued signficant increases in organic systems research.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

A question to all you organic proponents: where is the fertility going to come from for a large scale switch to organic agriculture. There just isn’t enough manure to go around. Furthermore, transporting that manure is expensive. Agriculture in Florida without pesticides and fertilizers is simply not possible on a large scale.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

I recently gave a presentation in which we examined the issue of “organic agriculture feeding the world”. Here is just a sampling of the university studies that I cited that demonstrate that organic farming can be at least as productive as conventional. I gather from your last paragraph that you were just trying to start a spirited discussion. I hope that’s the case. Otherwise, you need to do your homework. Organic agriculture is a very sophisticated method of farming which relies heavily on new technology and an understanding of biological systems. It can be highly productive and sustainable.

University of California:
http://tinyurl.com/yfseepk

University of Michigan:
http://tinyurl.com/bkxmcr

NC State University:
http://tinyurl.com/yemtf7t

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

No sane person would believe the government findings on pesticides and herbicides…unless you work for one of the manufacturers.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

Food production practices that result in human illness and environmental degradation utilize resources not “counted” in productivity studies. Often, substances initially declared safe and cost-effective by industry and government and used in conventional or industrial agriculture, such as DDT and 245t, are later banned as too toxic to use in the USA.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

I agree with Mr. Preli comments.

It seems odd that in a world of unlimited possibilities a person would choose to worship a single ridged dogma created by man as if is was a divine message delivered by a celestial force.

The term “organic” is an concept created by a small group of humans and worshiped by many more. To tie only positive (and never negative) environmental, health, and economic benefits is simply ridiculous and resembles religious fanaticism.

All crop production management options should be on the table and each should choose as they see fit given the economic and environmental limitations of their site. Anything less is selling mankind and planet earth short.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

Sound like this is a LIFE STYLE ISSUE.
I believe that a combination of both organic and conventinal is best.
IPM is the organic way to keep on top of your crops by inspecting.
If too much pressure via insects/disease then a application organic or regular is in order.
SAVE THE CROP.
Since we band DDT other countries took over our crop industries and use DDT. I understand we buy their products. We didnt gain on that isssue either. I have a small orchard and can’t see not using some kind of spray.
Pretty much total crop loss doing it organic. Maybe I should do like the organic Chinese and wrap every fruit with news paper.
Slim chance that will happen. How many people it would take is a 64 thousand dollar question.
Its the best of both worlds for me.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

If folks would take a step back and look at the facts from the past and the facts from the present, and the facts from both conventional and organic they would shortly see the truth is in the middle.

Organic is not the total answer, 50 years ago virtualy all food was organic and farmers worked so hard thier kids ran from the farm, (my dad was one of those kids) Corn in the midwest didnt make 50 bushels an acre and manure was everywhere. Manure can actualy become a pollutant, and the fertility is only as good as what the animal eats and dosent count what the animal retains. It was modern ag that found that crops also needed other nutrients. Also excessive plowing and cultivating led to immense losses of topsoil, remeber the Dust Bowl, herbicides have done more good than harm, yes I said more good. Here in the midwest, even on my own farm the scars of erosion are still present, where farmers would fall plow erodible soils in an attempt to get ahead of the weeds, (seeds of which were spread by manure used to fertilize the fields) this fall plowed land would erode all winter.

But conventional ag isnt the answer either. Farmers tired of the toil of pre WW2 farming found the miracle of chemicals to irresistable, weeds magicaly gone, bugs to, and fields that produced 50 bushel corn now produced 100 bushel. And with no thoughts about a pay off chemicals where sprayed with reckless abandon. But in the 60s and 70s folks caught up, and regulations and research where imposed, chemicals such as DDT and Agent Orange were outlawed. Now there is a regulatory agency in place. But it is not perfect, people are in charge and money exchanges hands. Big ag also still relies to heavily on chemicals. The corn glut from the magic years urged the creation of new uses for corn and beans which created feedlots, and the corporations that hold these lots are reluctant to shut them down, and the tax right offs for the financil losses by these feed lots save so much money for these corporations that they are not encouraged to close them either. I agree many thousands of acres of grain land, especialy the more erosion proned lands should be converted to pasture, and the cattle in the feed yards should be turned on these lands, that would do so much good for the enviroment.

I think the middle ground that the sustainable ag movement is trying to forge is more in the right direction, there is good in both forms of ag. As for the argument that there isnt enough compost for big farms, well this country fills the land fills everyday with good ingredients, and thier are a few enterprising individuals out there taking advantage of the fact. And as most organic farmers point out the modern farming scenario of farming just one thing, either crops, or animals is not real smart. Diversified farming has many benifits. If you look at nature you see the creator put many things in one spot, not mono cropping, a diversified farm copies nature. It protects you from total crop failure, it utilises waste and makes them assets. I see many bean fields with volunteer corn. When I was a boy in winter here in Indiana those same farms ran hogs over thier cornfields, the hogs cleaned up all the spilt corn, rooted up weeds and spread thier manure, and you didnt see volunteer corn in the beans. But, I see precision use of herbicides as a positive, I also see some pesticide use. But organic ag has some very promising pesticides coming on, Ive been experimenting with them here on my farm, only problem is thier limited persistance. Conventional ag has the only selective herbicides and these are the best tool for limited tillage, which is what I practice. I like not having to cultivate more than absolutely necessary, for one thing tillage kills way to many worms and damages crop roots which limits yeilds.

My point we need to study and take the best from both fields
Josh

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

Josh,

If a vegetable farmer let hogs out on his field nowadays he would have a very difficult time marketing his crop due to the various food safety requirements of the major buyers.

As other people have mentioned though, the ability to grow crops organically is very specific to certain areas. Organic sweet corn in the desert of Southern California is a much easier proposition that organic sweet corn in Southern Florida. And the consumer wants the organic product to look just like the conventional product, blemish free.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

Ninty percent of all statistics are manipulated fifty percent of the time.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

Organic farming is rapidly becoming everything it wasn’t supposed to be. Some big shippers have all gotten their fingers into it now and the competition has become especially fierce because there are several other big shippers out there who do not want to get into the organics at the risk of losing their well-established conventional product label integrity. This creates backroom coercion to the chain retailers to keep the prices the same or they will sell the better quality to the chain’s competition. As a result, go to your major grocery stores that offer organic veggies (most of them do now) and then compare the prices vs. the conventionally produced ones. FOR MOST PRODUCTS NOW, THE PRICES ARE EXACTLY THE SAME! With fertilizer costs double, and weeding costs averaging 500% higher, and as David mentions 20% lower yields (from my experience) than conventional, how is the organic farmer going to make it with the same prices as conventional? It’s not going to happen. Also the organic farming requires 2 or 3 more extra cultivation passes with the tractor; and more labor, meaning more fuel used and quicker depletion of tractor, tires, equipment, etc. These extra costs for the same sales price is a recipe for doom.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

Kansas State economist Barry Flinchbaugh states that “A third of the world goes to bed hungry or malnourished and we are going to add another billion by 2030.” We will not be able to feed these people properly using organic farming methods. I resent the organic community insinuating that food grown by “conventional” farmers is inferior to food grown by organic farmers. It has been proven there is no difference in food grown by either “conventional” or organic farmers.

This note is not for publication.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

I have always been one to embrace the best of many different styles of growing. I incorporate the use of IPM for my fruit and vegetables with a healthy dose of some excellent soil buiding lessons learned from organic growers. Coming off the worst year for rain in the North East, I’m reminded every day of how glad I was to tell my NRCS office that going organic was not for me (they were trying to get me to commit to a transitional orgainc program). Had I done that, it would have spelled the end of growing for me. I was able to get tomatoes to the stand and to market when organic growers were feeling the wrath of late blight. Growing strictly organic will never be for me after this past year. My advice: take the best growing methods and incorporate them to your style. They’re just another tool in the tool box.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

Come on, these numbers are wrong. I will put my certified organic yields of fresh market produce up against any conventional equivalents, not to mention gross and net income per acre. You’re giving blind faith to the numbers given by Syngenta Crop Protection…Hmmm, where do they have an interest? That conventional farming is the only one that can feed the world is a tired old argument of Syngenta, Monsanto, et al. According to the USDA, we use 70% of the grain grown in this country to feed livestock, which produces about 10% of the protein as food that it was fed. If you’re really that worried about feeding the world you should just eat one less hamburger a month and not fearmonger against organic.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

A poorly managed organic farm can produce poor yields and be unprofitable. A poorly managed conventional farm can produce poor yields and be unprofitable. Sustainable and organic farms can be just as productive as conventional farms if well managed. Does it take more passes with machinery to grow an organic crop? Yes. Does it take more labor to grow an organic crop? Yes. In organic your replacing some of the chemical with this two operations. So instead of the money in your weed control budget going to the chemical companies your hiring more workers on your farm from the local community and keeping the money local. What is wrong with that?

Why do the representatives from these chemical companies get so bothered when someone in an interview makes mention of how the organic industry is seeing steady growth? Answer, organic growers don’t buy a lot of crop inputs from companies like Syngenta and Monsanto.

Mr. Mack’s comment about pesticides being certified safe by the FDA and EPA, any sane oncologist at any respected hospital in this country would say that pesticides are not completely safe. But then again look at the people in Washington working in the FDA and EPA many were former Monsanto, and Syngenta employees its no wonder all pesticides have been considered safe.

Yields can be pushed with conventional farming and fertilizer I will say that, but it is not sustainable long term. Conventional production is highly energy intensive. Growers tend to only think about fuel consumption in field operations, but in conventional production they is tremendous amounts of energy and natural resources used before crop inputs even get to the farm. Commercial fertilizers, insecticides, herbicides, all use petroleum to be made and have wastes left over when the whole process is done. So where then is the study that compares all this? Has any one done a study on this? You can produce and produce and produce but if your burning up all the natural resources making all these high energy use crop inputs the process becomes unsustainable long term.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

Organic Cherries?
This post started out as a response to a feedback question online. We spent all morning on our response and we decided to post it on the blog when it got too long. (www.kingorchards.com)

Mary has raised a great question. Why don’t we have organic fruit and why is it not easier to obtain? It sounds like such a simple question, but for today’s fruit growers it is anything but.

“We are passionate about growing great fruit” is not just our slogan here at King Orchards, and includes a commitment to doing so in the most sustainable and scientifically sound methods available. That said, there are a couple of assumptions that I would like to address.

First, pesticide free and organic are not the same thing. Organic growers have over 1500 pesticides approved for their crop protection usage. You can Google “approved organic pesticides”. You will find that both toxic and persistent chemicals can be used in organic production. Copper Sulfate, for example, builds up in soils (is persistent) and is highly toxic to fish, worms, and etc. Yet copper sulfate is widely used in organic production as a fungicide. The European Union is attempting to ban/limit the use of copper sulfate, but the organic community is resisting. Now to be fair, our ipm (integrated pest management) consultant tells me that the copper usage on organic farms, that he also consults for, is not a significant threat to the soils. (The same argument non-organic growers use for our pesticides)

Second, the assumption that organic is ecologically preferable is rarely accurate. The largest organic producers in the US are in arid regions where they have cultivated fragile desert ecosystems. They are able to access irrigation water from our river systems. The dry climates greatly limit the need for fungicides and insecticides. Here in our temperate Midwest, we have fungal diseases that bloom or sporulate with each rain period. Insect fruit pests, many of which spend most of their lives in the moist soils and decaying vegetation in orchard floors, adapt to the long term fruit production cycles and create increasing problems for fruit growers. The organic grower has few viable solutions and usually relies on frequent sprays of sulfur and kaolin clay which are desiccants that cover the growing fruit and leaves to insulate and protect from pest attacks. The end result is that without real effective tools to manage pests, Midwest organic growers need much higher prices to cover their huge losses. Along with that, they spray much more frequently than do their conventional farming neighbors. To fill a bushel with organic apples, a Midwest organic farmer uses more acreage, more fuel, and more inputs, including sprays.

Many consumers may not believe me because that’s not what they have been reading and hearing. I have challenged Michigan State Extension directors in the past to publish statewide statistics on organic farming production, economics, sustainability, etc. The cash strapped University is not going to put their cash cow in a bad light. Well intentioned donors have funded chairs on organic production at the university. The organic farming school is well attended and growing. Extension hosts small farm conferences throughout the state that are well attended and create revenue for the university. Since the internet, meetings for conventional growers see much smaller attendance. The points in question are; how many organic fruit producers do we have in Michigan now verses 5, 10, 15 or 20 years ago? How many have been in business all those years versus how many are new? What percentage of organic growers income is derived from organic farming? (How many organic farmers live off farming versus outside income). In how many cases does conventional farming subsidize the organic portion of a farm?

I don’t know the answers to all of those questions but I feel that the facts would be valuable to growers on all sides of the debate.

I want to point out that in America last year we fed Americans and still exported $23 billion more than we imported. A business of this magnitude will of course have negative side effects, including persistent chemicals in water, erosion, depleted soils, etc. We should make it our goal to remedy these real problems and find better alternatives to persistent chemicals, better systems for soil management etc. I believe that organic programs at our universities may find some of the solutions to these problems. However, I do not believe that we should throw out science in the very serious business of agriculture. The organic movement has actually harmed the advancement of new and better farming methods by diverting so much research and funding away from progressive technologies. I am not willing to forgo the use of effective safe pesticides just because they were synthesized, or derived from a petroleum product. (Almost all of our pesticides break down quickly and do not show up as residues in food.) When making pesticide choices we do always opt for the best ecological choice even when that might cost more.

Frequent references to organic food by food editors has created an illusion that there is a “local organic alternative” available. And, by implication, that conventionally grown local food is less safe and less desirable. The truth in the Midwest is that very few organic farmers have been able to make it work for any volume of production and that there are only very limited amounts of local organic fruit. I am not opposed to organic farmers and those who want to have organic food, (we have become friends with a large cherry grower with an organic block and we frequently share ideas) however, I do not agree that organic is better food, is safer, or is more sustainable. The opposite has proven to be true in Michigan.

For us the goal is to grow the safest, best quality fruit, and to make a living doing it, and at the same time leave the farm in the same or better shape than when me moved here. I expect to adopt new practices that help us to do a better job, but, Organic is not a goal of ours because it rules out too many wonderful advancements in growing fruit.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

I think your wrong. We can produce equal or higher yeilds per acre with less inputs and energy with organic production. Organic production requires cultural practices that promote biology and soil health which will sustain production for many years into the future. Organic farming is inherently more friendly towards wild life and the environment because of its focus on ecology. There are many threats to the natural world, organic farming is not one of them.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

The whole argument that Syngenta, Monsanto, et. al make that their “technologies” are feeding the world is an outright lie. Why don’t you, a journalist, know this? Part of your job is to check facts.

American conventional agriculture is not feeding the world. The majority of people in the world still feed themselves via subsistence agriculture, and most of them do it with minimal inputs. As another writer already stated, most commodity crops are used to produce livestock, not to feed starving people in third world countries.

While it may or may not be true that organic farmers use slightly more fuel per acre, that fact is likely cancelled out by the fact that synthetic pesticides used by conventional growers are mostly made out of petroleum. The bigger problem that all U.S. and western farmers face is that our industry has substituted petroleum fuel for human labor and this is an inherently unsustainable strategy.

One of the most damaging things that agribusiness has done is remove livestock from farms and place them in feedlots. By returning livestock to cropland, farmers (Organic or conventional) could double their income per acre while reducing fertilizer costs. Instead, our ag industry focuses more and more on specialization and outsourcing of the types of jobs that a farmer used to do himself, and taking more of the profit he used to keep.

I will never understand why most farmers seem to hate environmentalists and bureaucrats so much, yet they are suckers for P.R. from corporations who are the real source of their economic hardship.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

It seems clear that statistics can be manipulated just about any way you want them to turn out, so I will not try to wade through the percentages and projected population troubles. Instead, I’ll just say that this article seems terribly short-sighted and narrowly-defined. It sounds, not-surprisingly, like corporate slight of hand…”Organics are categorically worse” and “Natural is not always better.” Unbelievable. How about the rate of farmer suicide in India, trapped in a web of inputs delived by the wonderful, socially minded individuals of Monsanto and the like? How about the chemical run-off that makes once-pristine water unsafe to drink or eat fish from? How about the consistent loss of topsoil? I imagine answers to these questions, coming from Michael Mack, would be some round-about statistics to avoid the issue and once again create a feeling that what seems to be right is actually not right. Mack, by his comments here, represents the kind of official insanity that runs the power structures of the States. I think we would do well to listen carefully to what he says and then act in the exact opposite way.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

Mr. Eddy,
I guess if you are so confident about EPA’s determinations of “safety” then you are fine with EPA’s findings about endangerment from greenhouse gases and the prospect of regulations for GHGs. Talk about wanting your cake and eating it too…

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

Conventional ag is not feeding the world now, there is no indication that it can in the future. According to this story, Mack’s “good case” consists of these assertions: organic farming takes up to 30% more land, on average, than conventional farming, to get the same yield (a gross over-simplification); pesticides help crops grow more efficiently (and also pose potential environmental and health hazards); If you don’t believe pesticides are safe, then you don’t trust the government’s findings (it may be good to question EPA’s judgment). Organic agriculture by not relying on synthetic fertilizers and pesticides is inherently less energy-intensive and environmentally harmful than conventional ag. Mainstream ag needs to understand that now more than ever consumers want high quality, fresh food free of toxins. Meeting that demand will feed the world.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

One study is never enough to make a case, but this one seems relevant to this discussion. The results of a 6-year apple production system comparison study (conventional, integrated, organic) by Washington State University researchers were published in the science journal Nature in 2001 and are available in full detail at this link:
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v410/n6831/full/410926a0.html

The summary states:

“All three systems gave similar apple yields. The organic and integrated systems had higher soil quality and potentially lower negative environmental impact than the conventional system. When compared with the conventional and integrated systems, the organic system produced sweeter and less tart apples, higher profitability and greater energy efficiency. Our data indicate that the organic system ranked first in environmental and economic sustainability, the integrated system second and the conventional system last.”

As earlier writers noted, regional differences are very significant in fruit production, so these results may not resonate for the humid midwest or other areas. It is good that such research is being advanced in more areas now so that producers have increasing information to use in making management decisions.

I would note as context for several of the threads in this discussion that many, many billions of dollars of public funding have advanced research into understanding and optimizing conventional systems for the last 60 years, while almost nothing has been invested in the same for organic systems, or integrated or sustainable systems for that matter. I contend that if we inverted the USDA research budget and gave $1.9 billion annually to organic systems research and $0.1 billion to conventional and let that go on for the next decade, organic yields would quickly outstrip conventional. The fact that organic producers generally come within 10% of conventional yields and match or surpass them on many farms (and nearly always in drought years) is a testament to the inherent strength of the approach and its potential to be a better long-term choice for agriculture.

That said, I have great respect for the producers who work hard to manage their systems in the way they feel works best for them, their land, their communities and their customers. We need less acrimony and hyperbole in discussions about what we know about systems and methods. Producers who embrace good ideas from across the board certainly embody that, and I applaud them for their open minds and good management. I don’t want to invert the unbalanced USDA budget, even though personally I have no interest in continuing down most convention research paths. Instead, we should strive to balance our investments, which for now should mean continued signficant increases in organic systems research.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

A question to all you organic proponents: where is the fertility going to come from for a large scale switch to organic agriculture. There just isn’t enough manure to go around. Furthermore, transporting that manure is expensive. Agriculture in Florida without pesticides and fertilizers is simply not possible on a large scale.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

I recently gave a presentation in which we examined the issue of “organic agriculture feeding the world”. Here is just a sampling of the university studies that I cited that demonstrate that organic farming can be at least as productive as conventional. I gather from your last paragraph that you were just trying to start a spirited discussion. I hope that’s the case. Otherwise, you need to do your homework. Organic agriculture is a very sophisticated method of farming which relies heavily on new technology and an understanding of biological systems. It can be highly productive and sustainable.

University of California:
http://tinyurl.com/yfseepk

University of Michigan:
http://tinyurl.com/bkxmcr

NC State University:
http://tinyurl.com/yemtf7t

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

No sane person would believe the government findings on pesticides and herbicides…unless you work for one of the manufacturers.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

Food production practices that result in human illness and environmental degradation utilize resources not “counted” in productivity studies. Often, substances initially declared safe and cost-effective by industry and government and used in conventional or industrial agriculture, such as DDT and 245t, are later banned as too toxic to use in the USA.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

I agree with Mr. Preli comments.

It seems odd that in a world of unlimited possibilities a person would choose to worship a single ridged dogma created by man as if is was a divine message delivered by a celestial force.

The term “organic” is an concept created by a small group of humans and worshiped by many more. To tie only positive (and never negative) environmental, health, and economic benefits is simply ridiculous and resembles religious fanaticism.

All crop production management options should be on the table and each should choose as they see fit given the economic and environmental limitations of their site. Anything less is selling mankind and planet earth short.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

Sound like this is a LIFE STYLE ISSUE.
I believe that a combination of both organic and conventinal is best.
IPM is the organic way to keep on top of your crops by inspecting.
If too much pressure via insects/disease then a application organic or regular is in order.
SAVE THE CROP.
Since we band DDT other countries took over our crop industries and use DDT. I understand we buy their products. We didnt gain on that isssue either. I have a small orchard and can’t see not using some kind of spray.
Pretty much total crop loss doing it organic. Maybe I should do like the organic Chinese and wrap every fruit with news paper.
Slim chance that will happen. How many people it would take is a 64 thousand dollar question.
Its the best of both worlds for me.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

If folks would take a step back and look at the facts from the past and the facts from the present, and the facts from both conventional and organic they would shortly see the truth is in the middle.

Organic is not the total answer, 50 years ago virtualy all food was organic and farmers worked so hard thier kids ran from the farm, (my dad was one of those kids) Corn in the midwest didnt make 50 bushels an acre and manure was everywhere. Manure can actualy become a pollutant, and the fertility is only as good as what the animal eats and dosent count what the animal retains. It was modern ag that found that crops also needed other nutrients. Also excessive plowing and cultivating led to immense losses of topsoil, remeber the Dust Bowl, herbicides have done more good than harm, yes I said more good. Here in the midwest, even on my own farm the scars of erosion are still present, where farmers would fall plow erodible soils in an attempt to get ahead of the weeds, (seeds of which were spread by manure used to fertilize the fields) this fall plowed land would erode all winter.

But conventional ag isnt the answer either. Farmers tired of the toil of pre WW2 farming found the miracle of chemicals to irresistable, weeds magicaly gone, bugs to, and fields that produced 50 bushel corn now produced 100 bushel. And with no thoughts about a pay off chemicals where sprayed with reckless abandon. But in the 60s and 70s folks caught up, and regulations and research where imposed, chemicals such as DDT and Agent Orange were outlawed. Now there is a regulatory agency in place. But it is not perfect, people are in charge and money exchanges hands. Big ag also still relies to heavily on chemicals. The corn glut from the magic years urged the creation of new uses for corn and beans which created feedlots, and the corporations that hold these lots are reluctant to shut them down, and the tax right offs for the financil losses by these feed lots save so much money for these corporations that they are not encouraged to close them either. I agree many thousands of acres of grain land, especialy the more erosion proned lands should be converted to pasture, and the cattle in the feed yards should be turned on these lands, that would do so much good for the enviroment.

I think the middle ground that the sustainable ag movement is trying to forge is more in the right direction, there is good in both forms of ag. As for the argument that there isnt enough compost for big farms, well this country fills the land fills everyday with good ingredients, and thier are a few enterprising individuals out there taking advantage of the fact. And as most organic farmers point out the modern farming scenario of farming just one thing, either crops, or animals is not real smart. Diversified farming has many benifits. If you look at nature you see the creator put many things in one spot, not mono cropping, a diversified farm copies nature. It protects you from total crop failure, it utilises waste and makes them assets. I see many bean fields with volunteer corn. When I was a boy in winter here in Indiana those same farms ran hogs over thier cornfields, the hogs cleaned up all the spilt corn, rooted up weeds and spread thier manure, and you didnt see volunteer corn in the beans. But, I see precision use of herbicides as a positive, I also see some pesticide use. But organic ag has some very promising pesticides coming on, Ive been experimenting with them here on my farm, only problem is thier limited persistance. Conventional ag has the only selective herbicides and these are the best tool for limited tillage, which is what I practice. I like not having to cultivate more than absolutely necessary, for one thing tillage kills way to many worms and damages crop roots which limits yeilds.

My point we need to study and take the best from both fields
Josh

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

Josh,

If a vegetable farmer let hogs out on his field nowadays he would have a very difficult time marketing his crop due to the various food safety requirements of the major buyers.

As other people have mentioned though, the ability to grow crops organically is very specific to certain areas. Organic sweet corn in the desert of Southern California is a much easier proposition that organic sweet corn in Southern Florida. And the consumer wants the organic product to look just like the conventional product, blemish free.

Avatar for Anonymous Anonymous says:

Ninty percent of all statistics are manipulated fifty percent of the time.

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